MAY I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE

The Gungan Council > OOC Community Forum > MAY I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE
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General Ceel Jedi Master Santa Ceel Christmas \m/ Posts: 98149 (11/30/07 12:16 pm) Reply	Re: Re: *Quote:* Nothing is being accomplished here. It's just two seperate sides going back and forth. Both unyielding. Both not willing to cooperate with the other. What's the bloody point? The point is that we've done it the quiet, civilized, polite way for the last six months and now its time to do it in public again.
Danster the Gangster Jedi Master Posts: 14266 (11/30/07 4:15 pm) Reply	Re: MAY I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE *Quote:* If I were the alleged leader of this board this responsibility would be even more important. Alema, you're not the leader of this board, nor will you ever be because you have neither the intelligence, know-how or abilities to run such a thing. That much is obvious by the drivel you have spouted in this thread. Which I would remind you, is a warning from it's founder and leader to start @#%$ behaving because recent actions from some have driven two of the community's most respected and liked member. And you continue to disrespect both them and the founder by questioning the rationale behind the thread? I have an idea. Shut the @#%$ up. And along with Enset, Bill and Savin, you're all critical of Ceel's actions here, saying he's wrong with posting this thread and how he addresses members. And this opinion is formed with what? The benefit of nearly a decade running a succesful and prosperous community? The Gungan Council has endured all kinds of conflicts in it's past, troubles that would make this look relatively miniscule (no disrespect to Spark). Ceel dealt with them all, in his own way. And the board today is living proof that it worked. It's safe and fair to say he knows what the hell he is doing. You might think you know better. You're wrong. And kyp, I consider you thinking me a fool as a gracious compliment. Your opinions are complete nonsense 99 times out of a hundred. This is an example of one of the 99.
Darth Phantom Sith Master Master of Darkness Horseman of Death Posts: 470 (11/30/07 4:39 pm) Reply	Re: MAY I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE *Quote:* And kyp, I consider you thinking me a fool as a gracious compliment. Your opinions are complete nonsense 99 times out of a hundred. This is an example of one of the 99. lmao, awesome.
General Ceel Jedi Master Santa Ceel Christmas \m/ Posts: 98153 (11/30/07 6:45 pm) Reply	Re: MAY I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE Its really quite entertaining to see the lame mentality of those who somehow turned this into being something about me. Its pretty obvious that those people are the trouble makers. I mean hell, any of you staff members remember the last time I made an important major decision around here? For much of the last year i've allowed the staff to do their job, with minimal intrusion from me, and they have done a good job. And yet when I make one power play a bunch of newbies go off half cocked talking about somebody (Me), who they don't even know. And I don't just mean that they don't know me in real life, they don't know me online either, not on TGC, not on AIM, not anywhere. If there is one truth when it comes to these kinds of issues its that those who know the least always have the most to say. And if there is a second truth it is that those with the most guilt are the ones spending the most time shifting the blame on the innocent.
Jameris Malak Rogue Jedi Master Out for Vengeance Posts: 1095 (11/30/07 7:33 pm) Reply	Re: MAY I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE cuddles with Ceel its okay my gungan friend. your still the CEO of this establishment are you not. I mean I hope so....I hope your not the fitness coordinator.
Enset Kallun In the land of the blind... Injured: cast comes off in September Posts: 181 (11/30/07 7:34 pm) Reply	Re: MAY I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE I am very, profoundly sad at the attitude of "if you don't like it, leave." Seriously. I get the idea that this boardset is run primarily by Ceel and secondarily by others of his choosing, and is entirely owned by a private company (Hi, EZboard!), but the fact remains that this board is comprised of people. The board in and of itself has no merit; it merely being an organization of areas which enable user input--it's the input itself that matters. And as users, we are the controllers of that input, to the extent that it does not get edited or deleted by those with edit/delete permissions. So if you are telling your users, your contributors, that they are quite welcome to leave and please do not let the door hit them on the way out? That seems counterproductive in the extreme. Yes, some people can be inconsiderate, or harsh, or immature, or have a different set of priorities than what you or I carry. This doesn't mean their entire presence on the board is unworthy garbage. If there is a problem between two people, as adults it is the optimal solution to talk about it and come to an understanding in order to resolve the problem, rather than violently oust the perceived offender. This allows all involved parties to stay, all their stories to continue, and most often, all of them to gain a better idea of what is considered good and appropriate conduct on the boards. You ban someone, and the short-term problem is solved, but nobody is really better off for it. But you know what? Within the abilities that EZboard has permitted you all to use, you all have freedom of action. You can ban me, you can ban him, you can ban them, you can ban countless numbers of users in tossing aside the "civilized, polite way." You can take up the sword and cut down anyone who you see as standing in your way. You have every right and ability! But do you really want to become the intellectual equivalent of a mindless killing machine? I don't even mean that in the pejorative sense, but in a pragmatic one: if you eradicate a large portion of your userbase, others tend to feel less secure in their standing, and growth and development of the board and what lies therein can be slowed or stopped. Members leave if they won't tolerate what they see going on. We're already starting to see a little bit of that, from veterans even, and this is the red flag that there's something deeper going on than just a couple upstarts and renegades. If there's a problem, and it's big enough that something has to change, then change it. But at the very least, have the clarity of thought to know precisely what it is that your change will do, who it will affect, and what the fallout may be. Know also that every one of us has flaws and makes errors, and we cannot in good conscience and good thought expunge those who also have flaws without taking steps to effect a change for the better before giving up on them entirely. I'm not saying this because I care about the forums. I don't. The whole place could collapse, and I'd still go about my life, largely unaffected. I would still talk with Savin about Mando culture, I'd still rap with Alema about character concepts and interpersonal things between characters, I would still talk with Tantor and Saede on occasion, sharing memories and stories of the place. But there are other stories elsewhere, and even the stories that are here now can be continued without this particular TGC. So if I don't care about the forums, why bother? Because other people care about the forums. People have invested great amounts of thought and time and effort into this place, and it would be bordering on criminal to see it all come to an end because people said "it's our way or the highway," and then watched people driving off on the interstate. If there's something I can do to change the situation and aid people in preserving that which they (and I!) enjoy, then I will gladly volunteer my knowledge, skills, and effort. And if I must pay for my dedication to the cause of betterment of the forums with my banning? So too shall I shoulder that possibility. The hammer is yours to wield, Ceel. Use it with clarity of intent.
Darth Terace Sith Master Impenetrable Darkness Dark Assassin Posts: 8121 (11/30/07 7:51 pm) Reply	Re: MAY I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE Obviously, you don't get the point of how TGC works. This is a community and if someone doesn't like how things are working in the community, we're not going to change it without a @#%$ good excuse. If they don't like it, they can get the hell out of here. That's how it's always worked and that's why TGC is still alive. Because we don't try to please people. We run a clean establishments where the shitheads are obliged to leave if they continue to be shitheads.
Malice Draclau Sith Master High Sith Priest Horseman of Famine Posts: 4848 (11/30/07 8:01 pm) Reply	Re: MAY I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE I have been here as long as I have because I care about TGC and about the people I rp with. Sure I rant sometimes, when the situation calls for it. I also bash on other members and constantly hound them, yet most of the time its all in good fun, and those I do it to know its in good fun and do it back. If ever I do have a problem with a member I try to reach them through pms or e-mail to get it resolved. And if I can't, then I make a thread to get their attention that we need to talk. I don't talk behind their backs, if I have something to say about them i'd say it to their face, i've got nothing to hide. Enset I think your missing something here. Sure what Ceel does sometimes seems harsh and tyrannical, but its done for a reason. Like others have pointed out TGC hasn't lasted this long for nothing, its because those running the show know whats going on, Ceel knows whats going on. In the past I have disagreed with things hes done, and he knows this cause I argued with him on several occasions. Yet majority of the time what he does is for the betterment of TGC. You might think banning those who caused Spark to leave is wrong, I say its a good move. If they can get people like Spark to pack up and leave, then whos to say they wont get others to leave do to their idiotic and unwanted comments? Sometimes the only way to deal with situations like this is to get rid of the badseeds. As for making a thread like this, again sometimes its needed. Like me most people didn't even know there was a problem going on...this thread is to let those of us know there is a problem and it needs immediate attention before it gets out of control and hurts more people. Saying you don't care about the board Enset......doesn't make you look very good in peoples eyes right about now. Mines included.
Alema Nilim CFR Comms Officer TGU Adept "Cobalt" Posts: 272 (11/30/07 8:16 pm) Reply \| Edit	Re: MAY I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE Sure, Terace. At which point we face the question of what constitutes a "shithead." If the consensus of this thread is that shitheads snipe each other behind their backs, I'd like some actual explanation as to what the complaints against the "idiot list" have been other than criticizing the existence of this thread. If the consensus of this thread is that shitheads are more interested in demeaning, devaluing, and disrespecting their fellow members than in actually solving problems with him, then I'd like to see a tally of how many insults Ceel and his defenders have tossed around just in this thread, compared to a tally of how many personal attacks I've thrown in my entire time on this forum. If the consensus of this thread is that people shouldn't be forced off of TGC due to general mistreatment, I'd like to see some resolution by the staff that they're also interested in retaining members. I'd like to see any indication that this is about the social atmosphere of this place, and not simply Ceel lashing out because Spark left, trying to solve the situation the only ways he knows how: bitching and banning. If the consensus of this thread is that members of TGC have a right to feel respected and welcome, I'd like some indication that TGC members are worth a damn to Ceel. I'd also like to see an explanation of how Ceel reconciles "people should address each other maturely and respectfully" with "obey or gtfo." Basically, I'm hearing a lot of talk about how people ought to be treated and how a community ought to be run. The people talking loudest about the "idiot list" ruining TGC are the ones seemingly least interested in actually fixing any of the problems they cite. At that point it just comes down to favoritism versus personal grudges. If that's what you really want, say it, but don't pretend that any of this is about high-minded intents to "improve" TGC. This brings me back to the very first thing I said in this thread. If you really care so much about people on TGC being mature and treating each other well, and if you really care about the way your members feel, please try not to be part of the problem. This thread isn't intended to solve anything. This thread isn't intended to bring Spark back or prove to her that TGC's become a kinder, gentler place. This thread is intended to escalate the situation so that Ceel can ban some people so that he can feel in control of the situation. It's not an unreasonable desire, but please don't try to cloak it in concern for the community. I'm going to conclude with something I feel is relevant. In the context of my research project, Ceel and I discussed some of his goals for the board. One of the chief reasons for the creation of TGC was what Ceel felt was a stifling social atmosphere on another board. "I hoped that with my own community I might be able avoid such politics and give more fans a place to be heard without having to worry about a backlash against them." Among his responsibilities to his members he listed, "To prohibit they kind of clique-based attitudes that made made me feel less than welcome, and less than equal when I joined my first community all those years ago." There's no denying that there's a tiny clique of people on this forum that Ceel actually cares about. Spark was one of them, perhaps top of the list. No one else matters, and he has little regard for them. Heck, I've talked to half a dozen people who disagree with Ceel, but know if they dissent they're more likely to be banned for their troubles than heeded. Which brings up something else Ceel told me. "I don't demand that members always agree with me, and they are more than welcome to tell me what they think. When I do make an executive decision, however, they should abide by it. But if I have done my job correctly the number of people in opposition to such decisions should be small. If there is a mass outpouring of opposition then I have failed to listen to the members and have failed to act in their best interest." Because of Ceel's favoritism he's created the very cliques and stifling atmosphere he allegedly wanted to escape. This thread is part of it. That's how TGC works. Edited by: Alema Nilim at: 11/30/07 8:26 pm
Korran Halcyon Sith Master Lost Sorrow TGC Addict Posts: 19869 (11/30/07 8:21 pm) Reply	Re: MAY I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE Terace speaks correctly.
Jameris Malak Rogue Jedi Master Out for Vengeance Posts: 1097 (11/30/07 8:26 pm) Reply	Re: MAY I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE ceel doesnt create clicky atmosphere. you choose to be clicky when you meet people who are in a clique for some reason and you yourself decide to join with them for whatever reason. i'm sure ceel doesnt force you into these things. its a game, and you should create an atmostphere where everyone is welcome. but you cant break the rules. why dont you just not talk behind anybody, drop your clique and enjoy the game. or go spam or do whatever it is that you do on this board to pass your time other then trouble other people who do right by their standards.
Malice Draclau Sith Master High Sith Priest Horseman of Famine Posts: 4851 (11/30/07 8:31 pm) Reply	Re: MAY I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE Quote: If the consensus of this thread is that members of TGC have a right to feel respected and welcome, I'd like some indication that TGC members are worth a @#%$ to Ceel. I'd also like to see an explanation of how Ceel reconciles "people should address each other maturely and respectfully" with "obey or gtfo." If ceel didn't give a @#%$ about people at TGC, then he wouldn't have done this in the first place. This thread wasn't made to punish those who did wrong, nor was it made just for Spark...theres another thread for that. This thread was made to let TGC as a whole know there is a problem going on, a problem that certain members are creating thats driving off other members, members who really and truly do care about the community. I do not know for sure if the names on that list are the cause, but what I do know is a well respected and well liked member of TGC left because people couldn't resolve their problems off the board, and couldn't keept their ill thoughts to themsevles. One sure way of stopping this from escalating...get rid of those problem members. If you'll note, pretty much all in this thread agree with Ceel in that those that wish to cause trouble in this way don't deserve to be here. So, rither they can shape up their attitude and cut the crap, or they can leave willingly. Keeping up what their doing will get them banned, and I am in full agreement with that as well.
Mikel Marzullo Imperial Elite Vehement One Posts: 212 (11/30/07 8:52 pm) Reply	Re: MAY I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE Ok, I know that know that I've kept quiet about this thread for a while beyond "flaming is bad" but this is getting extremely stupid. Alema hasn't caused trouble that I've seen, Savin was just speaking out against this thread, same with Enset and Tao. So, I ask you, what is the purpose of this thread? Why did he have to put names on there that had nothing to do with the incident other than disagree with the fact people are being called "fucktards" and "idiots"? It's rather clear it isn't for some sense of justice, because there isn't any. If this thread was intended for some sort of sorting out of TGC's issues, then it would have been handled differently. It would have been handled in a way that was devoid of the childish that has been the focus of this thread. "List of Stupid People" could be replaced by "List of Troublemakers"and then it could be discussed what they have done to get on that list. I would have a lot more respect for the list and for the people involved if that happened. I understand that everyone wants to make sure that there are no more people who leave because of the reason Spark did. But banning anyone who disagrees with what seems the equivalent of a Salem Witch Hunt is the wrong way to do it. I know you all grieve for Spark, I wish she was here. But I also realize that we have to do more than point fingers and accuse people of doing wrong. Would Spark want her leaving to cause all of this drama? You have to wonder what she'd think of all of this.
Malice Draclau Sith Master High Sith Priest Horseman of Famine Posts: 4854 (11/30/07 9:11 pm) Reply	Re: MAY I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE While I don't agree with the list(especially if those names aren't the ones the reason this thread was made) I still believe in the making of this thread in general.
General Ceel Jedi Master Santa Ceel Christmas \m/ Posts: 98159 (11/30/07 10:05 pm) Reply	Re: MAY I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE Look at the list Malice, and then look at the people in this thread that are bitching and moaning because the rest of us have finally decided to stand up against their behavior in public. As you can tell they really don't like being called out in public there much, and thats exactly the point. So as they continue to stick their limbs deeper down their throats the rest of the community can look and see, beyond any doubt, that these people have nothing positive to add to this community.